Q/A by Simon Goddard of Q magazine
Q BOWIE/IGGY BERLIN YEARS Q&A
RICKY GARDINER
1. Having worked with both, what do you see as the main differences between David and Iggy, in terms of personality and also in terms of what they’re like to work with/how they create their music?
When eating, Iggy will be interested in the food and give it his full attention, David will know it is in front of him, but will probably be thinking of something else.
When working, Iggy will experience it , David will perform it.
Iggy will use references if he must, David of necessity.
Iggy expresses himself, David expresses his time.
Iggy imagines, David observes.
Both are talented and both work hard.
2. As somebody who worked closely with both, what do you think David and Iggy had in common that formulated their friendship; what was the mutual attraction from your perspective?
Whilst they share certain qualities of energy, the transformation process conditioning the energies in each one results in quite different forces being expressed. Thus, that which unites them is both mutual and complimentary.
It might be said that if they occupied the same body, a most interesting parade of works may appear.
However, since they are not so combined , they each strive to discover the secret of the other.
3. Berlin in 1976 is always painted out to be this strange mix of East European austerity (The Wall) and Western decadence – the nightclubs, the drag bars and the fact the city was supposedly the heroin capital of Europe at the time.
What are your memories of the city – the culture, the nightlife and the looming shadow of the wall itself. Any specific anecdotes that sum up your experience of Berlin?
Isn’t it a most interesting thing that those who go and look for heroin, seem to find it?
( I have spent quite a lot of time in Berlin, and have never found it )
My experience of Berlin was of a city culturally and politically confused by the traumatic shattering of the German personality as a result of WW2.
To expect normative behaviour from the inhabitants of that stricken island edifice, would have been unrealistic.
None the less, the human spirit will not be stifled indefinitely, as we have seen , and so I presume a lot of healing will have taken place since the political rearrangement.
Today we talk of Berlin as one place. Then it was two. In West Berlin there was no East European austerity, Yes there was Western decadence but why look for that? There was and is much beauty, fine architecture, parklands and lakes. The so called decadence was very much a minority and only of interest to some adolescents, post adolescents, those with indulgent appetites and deviants. Unfortunately, most cities suffer this illusionary blight , but it is temporary, and once society dispenses with fraudulent quackery masquerading as glamorous living, this destructive virus will be brought under control.
4. David had gone to Europe to escape LA because he was in a bad state; his cocaine abuse is well documented and he was still obsessed with numerology and occult matters. When you first met David and began recording Low, was there any evidence of mental imbalance/strange obsessions?
David told me that L.A. was difficult. I assume from this that he was impressionable and perhaps susceptible to the intake of that which is fashionable yet poisonous.
It must be remembered that the life of an artist is complex.
That which confers the sensitivity which, when externalised, becomes art , may also subtly erode the boundaries between useful energies and destructive forces. When negatively engaged, the destructive forces can hold sway, leading to the personality being manipulated to the detriment of healthful productivity.
However, those same energies, when rightly channelled can, and sometimes do, lead to inspired works.
Occult matters must be respected and should never be approached when intoxicated.
I never saw any evidence of mental imbalance but if there was , I would blame the toxins first, of which I saw no evidence.
5. How did you handle Brian Eno’s ‘Oblique Strategies’ method of working; apparently Carlos Alomar found it frustrating at times and even David has later admitted that he and Eno subjected the band to “art pranks” for their own amusement?
I must say, I rather liked Brian and found him interesting to talk to.
I think oblique strategies must have been reserved for side two of the album, because when recording with the band and during subsequent overdubs, it was just like recording of any other album.
I know nothing of art pranks although I know David can be playful.
6. Some famous incidents at the Chateau when making Low – that David and Tony Visconti came down with food poisoning, and that a French journalist had infiltrated the Chateau posing as a member of staff. What do you remember about these incidents, and the making of Low in general?
I missed the food poisoning incident. Tony (Visconti ) told me all about it. Complaint was made and things improved. I enjoyed the food and the conversation which was very civilised. I thought Iggy did rather well sticking to his macrobiotic rice !
As to the French journalist, I would not have noticed nor would I have given two hoots. This was not the only time there were rumours about such matters, Perhaps it was a management ruse to encourage THE BOYS to keep SCHTUM . Perhaps not?
7. Was Low a team effort – were Dennis, Carlos and yourself all contributing or was it more a case of following David, Brian and Tony’s lead?
David was MC during run throughs which were faithfully recorded by Tony. I remember Tony was not particularly pleased with the desk but it seemed to be sorted out eventually.
8. According to biographers, David’s estranged wife, Angie, paid a visit to the studio with her new boyfriend and caused considerable friction. Were you there at the time?
I was there and I already knew Angela and her ‘new boyfriend’.
Certainly it was a difficult time for the pair of them, but I do not recall the new boyfriend being present. I felt sorry for Angie. She was bright and resourceful and I believe a great help to David, but it was not to last.
9. You played on The Idiot tour, where David attempted a degree of anonymity by playing keyboards in the background. What was it like being around such a huge star on stage who was deliberately shunning the limelight. And any memories stick out from that tour?
David playing keyboards on the ‘Idiot’ tour gave Iggy a certain challenge to keep the eyes of the audience upon himself and not upon his more famous keyboard player, David’s challenge was to remain uncompetitive.
I think they succeeded to a degree not fully expected by some.
Yes, David was a big star but, you know, we were just a bunch of musicians playing together and with Hunt and Tony (Sales) in the band, you could NOT take things like that seriously. Those were great boys and they were good fun.
10. Lust For Life was a far more conventional “rock” record than The Idiot. Iggy was now on a health kick, started weight lifting and had a renewed and genuine “lust for life”. What was it like witnessing that transition, from drug casualty to reborn/new Iggy?
When I met Iggy he had already made the transition. He was fit , healthy and enthusiastic. During all my time recording Low, Lust for Life and throughout the ‘Idiot’ tour. I never saw Iggy the worse for wear. Not once. Maybe I am just lucky!
11. How does it feel being part of albums which literally changed the face of music for the next 30 years thereafter, from Joy Division to Radiohead?
People tell me these albums are important but when you are making them you can never foretell.
Virginia Scott, who was also present during the recording of ‘Lust for Life’ insisted that the ‘Passenger’ would be a successful song.
However, as we know, the record company initially turned down ‘Low’ and ‘Lust for Life’ took seven years to start moving.
Am I proud of my involvement?
Of course.
The answers to these question are the copyright of Ricky Gardiner Songs
This message was typed by Virasco from Ricky Gardiner’s notes
ricky gardiner <ricky.gardiner@virgin.net> wrote:
Dear Simon,
Thank you for your e mail and your interview request.
I would be delighted to answer any questions you may have.
Please submit them via e mail and I shall reply,and we will take it from there.
Cheers,
Ricky
from Ricky Gardiner’s notes. This message was typed by Virasco
—– Original Message —–
From: Simon Goddard
To: ricky.gardiner@virgin.net
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: Q Mag Request: Ricky Gardiner
FAO RICKY GARDINER
RE: Q MAGAZINE
Early 2007 Q Magazine (the UK’s leading music monthly) will be celebrating the 30th anniversary of David Bowie’s albums Low and Heroes. Three decades on, these albums continue to inspire new music and remain among the most frequently cited and most influential records of the last 50 years.
In commemorating this anniversary, Q have asked me to write a feature on the making of Low and Heroes. It would be fantastic to speak to Ricky Gardiner about his work on those records (as well as Iggy Pop’s) and to place them in a fresh perspective with new quotes.
If Ricky is available for telephone interview that would be greatly appreciated.
My contact details are below. My copy deadline is January 4 so ideally if Ricky is available the interview would have to happen prior to Christmas (next week?).
Hope to hear from you soon.
Simon Goddard
Q Magazine
Ricky Gardiner 